Q410 : When is Daniel 8:5-7 Fulfilled?
Dear Tony,
I was wondering your thoughts on Daniel 8:5-7 and if you think it will happen before the tribulation, and who the goat and the ram are? Many believe as I think you do that the Gog and Magog war of Ezekiel and Revelation are different for the reasons you list. But many believe the current conflict between Iran and Israel, with Russia joining Iran in Support and Hezbollah and Hamas surrounding Israel are the beginning of the Gog Magog war written about in Ezekiel. . . .
When do you attribute Daniel 8:5-7 taking place? I believe as others that Iran could be the ram and many feel the goat is Greece but Greece cannot alone be the goat today as it is powerless, so it must be because it is a part of NATO which at this moment has sped across the whole earth without touching the ground via the United States strike carrier group, fighter squadron, and war ships and has positioned f-22's and f-18's in Qatar and the US has warned Iran of a devastating blow to it's government and economy . . . if Iran attacks Israel. Does this seem like it could fulfill Daniel 8:5-7 to you? Could Daniel 8:5-7 and Ezekiel 38-39 be one and the same which would produce enough bodies from Hezbollah being destroyed to the north but I don't see the weaponry being the same.
Your immediate thoughts on at least whether Daniel 8:5-7 is about to unfold are greatly appreciated asap as this could take place any moment. |
A410 : by Tony Garland
I share the view of the majority of interpreters that Daniel 8:5-7 was fulfilled prior to the birth of Christ.
- I take the ram with two horns to be Medo-Persia which overthrew Neo-Babylonia in 6th-century B.C.
- I take the male goat from the west as Greece, with its notable horn alluding to Alexander the Great—overthrowing Medo-Persia in the 4th-century B.C.
There are a number of reasons why I hold this interpretation, including parallelism with the sequence of kingdoms revealed within Daniel chapters 2 and 7. But the primary reason I have this view is because the angel Gabriel explicitly gives this interpretation in Daniel 8:20-22.
20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns—they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. (Dan. 8:20-21)
Dwight Pentecost explains:
Though his father Philip II of Macedonia had united all the Greek city-states except Sparta, Alexander is considered Greece’s first king.1
You mention, I believe as others that Iran could be the ram and many feel the goat is Greece but Greece cannot alone be the goat today as it is powerless... There is a good reason why Greece of today does not fit the description of the prophecy in Daniel 8:5-7, namely: the prophecy was fulfilled centuries ago!
The angel continues his explanation:
22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power. 23 “And in the latter time of their kingdom, When the transgressors have reached their fullness, A king shall arise, Having fierce features, Who understands sinister schemes. 24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; He shall destroy fearfully, And shall prosper and thrive; He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people. (Daniel 8:22–24)
Many, including me, believe this refers to the splitting apart of Alexander’s kingdom into the eventual control of four of his generals: Ptolemy, Cassander, Lysimachus, and Seleucus. The king with fierce features would then predict Antiochus Epiphanes IV, who serves as a type (or model) of the eventual rise of a similar figure future to our day: the Antichrist.
Pentecost continues:
There is no question among expositors that Antiochus is in view in this prophecy. What was prophesied was fulfilled literally through him. However, the prophecy looks beyond Antiochus to a future person (the Antichrist) of whom Antiochus is only a foreshadowing. This coming one is said to “stand against the Prince of princes” (v. 25). This can be none other than the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus the prophecy must go beyond Antiochus and look forward to the coming of one whose ministry will parallel that of Antiochus.2
In summary, I believe that the events of Daniel 8:5-7, although future to Daniel’s time (and hence, bona fide prophecy at the time given) were fulfilled well in advance of Christ’s first-coming. I do not believe they correspond to geopolitical events of our day.
We can expect confusion when we misappropriate passages that have already found fulfillment and attempt to interpret today’s political events in their light. This is one of many reasons why it is critical that believers understand the Old Testament and the historical events of its time, including those prophecies which have already been fulfilled.
I will eventually be covering this passage in my commentary on Daniel, Daniel Discovereda.3
Blessings in Christ, Tony
Endnotes:
Sources:
Ref-0038 | John Walvoord and Roy. B. Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Wheaton, IL: SP Publications, 1983). |
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